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4.14 Die Rückkehr, Teil 3-Audiokommentar

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Episode: - „Die Rückkehr, Teil 3

Commentators: Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse

Commentary Bearbeiten

Damon Lindelof: So here we are, back in the future presumably. My favorite edit in the entire show...

Carlton Cuse: It's not presumably.

Damon Lindelof: We're in the future. Here's my favorite edit. Watch as the window actually starts to roll down. That's two separate shots. We actually matched the window rolling down. We switched takes as it's going down. Henk Van Eeghen again. And the moral of this story is... don't tell Sayid what time it is.

Carlton Cuse: Yeah, no. Especially if it's the wrong time.

Damon Lindelof: Yeah, we always wanted a sort of ADR in there of Sayid going, "It's 8:16"

Carlton Cuse: So this was, again, you know, further development of the mystery of Jeremy Bentham. Here is Sayid showing up to talk to Hurley and basically kind of forewarn him that things are not good in the future. Things aren't safe. And Hurley is going to basically bust... Get busted out of here by Sayid. At the end of this scene is one of my favorite lines in the finale, which is the identity of the mysterious, imaginary or unseen player who Hurley is playing chess with.

Damon Lindelof: Yes, exactly. And it has the comedy Ks in it. Checkmate, Mr. Eko.

Carlton Cuse: Exactly.

Damon Lindelof: lt got a big laugh when we watched it. l like Sayid's hair in the future. l don't know what kind of products he's using, but l feel like assassinating people is... it gives him a sort of lustrous... ...shine. He's probably using some conditioner to get all the brains and stuff out, from the multiple executions he's doing. Whatever it is, it's working. What do you mean they said it was suicide? Um, obviously, something really cool about this scene, l love Giacchino's score as Sayid is coming into Santa Rosa, because Sayid still has the gun out, you wonder for just a second, is he coming to kill Hurley? Has he sunk so low? But thank God he's not.

Carlton Cuse: l was wondering if he was gonna come shoot himself in front of Hurley.

Damon Lindelof: That's dark. What's great about this story is, because you're beyond the season three finale, anything can happen to any of these characters. Nobody is safe again. And all we can say is, as you move into season five, is that sense of, "l know nothing's gonna happen to the Oceanic Six. I've seen them get off the island," is gonna go away.

Carlton Cuse: But, of course, the mystery remains, which is, we know things are unsettled for them in the future. Now what happens? Do they get back to the island? How do they get back, if in fact they're going back to the island? Here we are. Check.

Damon Lindelof: Why is Hurley not putting on pants before he leaves?

Carlton Cuse: "Checkmate, Mr. Eko." That's the mystery because, actually, he will have pants on later, but he only has a robe on now. And we decided we would cut out of that scene before we saw Hurley put his pants on.

Damon Lindelof: A great idea. Now, obviously Lapidus has stayed on the constant bearing so that people don't... don't flip out. But the freighter is moving, as we know. So they can't find it. And you know, there's this great line he says, "ln case anybody else wants to jump." And now we get to play this aspect of the triangle. And there's a great tragedy here in what Jack says. The audience knows they're never gonna get to go back for Sawyer. But it's noble that he's saying it, 'cause at this point in the game, he just saw Sawyer and Kate kiss, and he's kind of writing her off again.

Carlton Cuse: Oh, there's the freighter out there. They found it. Not good. Just because they found it does not mean things are good.

Damon Lindelof: This, by the way, is one of the best acts in the finale because you begin to realize that all these story lines actually interconnect. So you've got this guy who's down in the Orchid Station. His life is hanging in the balance. We know what happens if he dies. We know the chopper... every story line is now interconnecting at the freighter. Obviously, that's where this act is gonna end. Here's a place where Michael Giacchino, who we cannot say enough nice things about, our genius composer, sort of had to write a piece of music that essentially starts right after the... you know, the light turns red on Keamy's arm and goes all the way to Sun screaming out Jin's name at the end of the act. And it's absolutely, you know, pulse pounding.

Carlton Cuse: It's very movie-like. l mean, the thing that is a problem for composers in television is that you have very short cues. And there aren't big, sweeping scenes like this where a composer can dig in and write a long three or four minute cue, develop a theme and play it and you know, allow it to kind of build and culminate. That's one thing that is great about Michael. And, you know, we score the show with a live orchestra, and so we actually... one of the great thrills of every finale is we go down to the scoring stage. It's the only time during the year where we have time to actually watch the scoring. It's a culminating and satisfying thing to actually, having written the finale, to then go in and see what Michael, you know, as our collaborator, writes for, you know, his part. When he takes these sort of big moments like this, and decides, "OK, this is what I'm gonna do music wise to make this play."

Damon Lindelof: In the editing of this sequence of the show, in this script, essentially the act-out used to be where Desmond shouts, "Damn it, don't land!" But we felt like we wanted to keep going 'cause there's a little bit of a movie trick that happens here, which is one of the parameters of shooting the show is that we could not land the helicopter on the freighter. We could never actually show that. So we somehow had to get from him telling them not to land to them on the freighter. What were we gonna cut to? So we have this little moment that we crafted literally in the editing room, Michael and Jin continuing to work on the bomb.

Carlton Cuse: If you look, the helicopter is sideways in the shadow, even though the helicopter is actually vertical, and it's basically parallel to the freighter. But it's such a cool shot to actually see the shadow. It is the helicopter's, 'cause the helicopter was hovering. Though there was a continuity gaffe, the helicopter out of position, that shadow was worth leaving in the show.

Damon Lindelof: Now we realize, my God, these guys have landed. We're starting to figure out the Oceanic Six. How it's all gonna come together. The key here, in both the writing and in Jack Bender's brilliant direction, was to keep things moving at such a velocity that the audience doesn't have time to think about the bad decision-making occurring here.

Carlton Cuse: A lot of bad decision-making.

Damon Lindelof: Bad decision number one is Sun is waiting to run after Jin. But because she's got the baby, she's having second thoughts. And here, Kate is basically telling Sun, you know, "I'm gonna go get Jin, you get the baby on the helicopter," which is gonna create, a sort of well of guilt that exists for Kate.

Carlton Cuse: One of the things that's interesting is you think about certain things being effects shots, other things you don't. The problem with... You could park the helicopter on the boat, but the rotors were too large, if the rotor were to rotate on the boat, they would actually hit the top of the freighter, so... When you see the rotors spinning in a lot of these shots, those are CG. So the helicopter itself is actually the real helicopter, but the rotors have been added by our special effects team.

Damon Lindelof: Mitch Suskin, who, to talk about the special effects team very quickly here, these shots you're about to see are effects shots. The rotors winding up, helicopter lifting off, Jack pulling himself onto the helicopter and the explosion itself. Mitch Suskin had literally no time at all to do all these effects shots. Cinema quality effects shots that he had to complete in roughly 25 days.

Carlton Cuse: One thing that actually makes Lost possible is the fact that the technology... See, those are all fake shots. Those rotors are not really spinning in real life. We can actually do these things on a television budget. You know, you would never be able to actually shoot Lost, or could not have shot Lost ten years ago. It wouldn't have been possible to make Hawaii look like different locations. You wouldn't be able to actually stage sequences like this. They would be done practically and be prohibitively expensive. We wouldn't use this boat. We wouldn't execute the gags we put in the script. Now this here, you know, is really also incredible. l mean, Yunjin Kim's incredible performance as Sun here. You know, the important thing in any action sequence like this is to not just have an action sequence, but it has to have emotional resonance. It has to mean something for the characters. So, for us, the entire definition of this sequence was...

Damon Lindelof: Christian Shephard, real quick. Just to interrupt.

Carlton Cuse: He's showing up here to drop a little Christian Shephard. So now when the boat blows up... the power is not in the boat blowing up. lt's Sun's reaction to the boat blowing up. That's what gives it its impact. It's when you see the actual kind of emotional resonance that this event has on her, as she thinks her husband is dead.

Damon Lindelof: When you think about how amazing her performance is, you have to think Yunjin is performing on a sound-stage, in front of a green screen, the freighter is nowhere near her, and Daniel Dae Kim isn't around. She's generating that performance...

Carlton Cuse: Poor Yunjin, she lost her voice. he couldn't even talk after doing all this dialogue here. So, just tremendous, tremendous performance. It's hard to do something like this without it being over the top, and seeming soap opera like. But she really sold it and made it visceral and believable.

Damon Lindelof: This is one of our favorite transitions in the show, coming up, there's such emotional connectivity and understanding. The beginning of Sun's separation from these people, and her propensity to sort of flip over to the dark side. we felt like we were only gonna get Widmore for one scene in this finale, because Alan Dale was actually shooting, was actually on, in Spamalot in London. And we had to go to London in order to get two scenes.

Carlton Cuse: This is actually London.

Damon Lindelof: The worst effects shot in the show.

Carlton Cuse: It looks bright. She's shadowed in the foreground, and the bridge is lit in the background. lt looks like a bad composite. No this is actually in London right here. This is no composite. This is the actual place. And it was actually really cool. We shot this scene and the scene in episode nine, Widmore and Ben talking in Widmore's bedroom. Those two scenes. And actually the little drive-up with the taxicab also. Those were all actually shot in London. But we really felt it was essential to see Charles Widmore in this episode. Charles Widmore is someone who will be significant in the show next season. And, you know, for us, you know, Yunjin basically has this moment here. And we know that she's basically, she blames a couple of people for the death of Jin. And, now it appears that she's basically willing to team up with Charles Widmore for some reason. We don't know yet.

Damon Lindelof: The irony would appear from this scene, that she doesn't blame Charles Widmore, who of course is the person who is responsible for Jin's death, by virtue of bringing a freighter full of people trying to kill everyone on it.

Carlton Cuse: If Jin is dead.

Damon Lindelof: Yeah. There's also somebody else responsible for Jin's death, in Sun's mind, which is the person who killed Keamy, but...

Carlton Cuse: Or Keamy could be responsible for Jin's death.

Damon Lindelof: Many people. But...

Carlton Cuse: Or maybe Kate. Or maybe Jack.

Damon Lindelof: Maybe herself, for not arguing vociferously enough.

Carlton Cuse: Or maybe the dog, for not warning her. That guy in the background behind, see that person with the purse? That's the person responsible, in back of that last shot.

Damon Lindelof: Unbelievable. You heard it here first. A shocking revelation. Person with the purse. Love that transition of, you know, "why did you blow them up?" And now, basically, we're back in the Orchid and playing this great emotional beat between Locke and Ben. Obviously Ben is very busy here, and he's saying that, you know, "When you get to take over John, we'll see how easy it is for you." One of the recurring themes on the show is the idea of the strain of leadership. The idea that you are forced to make decisions on behalf of your people, but almost always those decisions are going to be questioned by those people, and they're not going to like you for them. So, it starts with an explosion, and it is going to evolve in the next scene towards, "I'm now handing the literal and figurative baton over to you."

Carlton Cuse: It's worth noting at this point that the Dharma Initiative, when they built the Orchid Station, were aware that were some big-time electromagnetic properties that existed in this part of the island. They built this station and realized they could, with some of their equipment, harness the powers of these electromagnetic forces, but they didn't really know what they had stumbled upon. What Ben was doing in that previous scene was blowing a hole in the back of the Orchid Station, because there's something actually older and more significant that has to do with the electromagnetism that he's about to go down and look at.

Damon Lindelof: Halliwax said in the film, "there is a pocket of negatively charged exotic matter close to the station."

Carlton Cuse: But they didn't really know where or what. Just to clear up any confusion, when Ben goes down the tunnel, it wasn't like Dharma knew about that tunnel.

Damon Lindelof: "Negatively charged exotic matter" can be the name of your college band, if you so choose.

Carlton Cuse: l thought you were gonna say that Josh looked like negatively charged exotic matter.

Damon Lindelof: What's great is that Sawyer, as he was swimming back, said, "Oh, this shirt is really slowing me down."

Carlton Cuse: And the shoes.

Damon Lindelof: "l better take it off so l can come out of the water like a big beefcake."

Carlton Cuse: l think the mystery of when he took that shirt off, what happened to that shirt, would be a good flashback next season.

Damon Lindelof: A flashback of the shirt?

Carlton Cuse: Yes.

Damon Lindelof: What'd be great, is it has a flashback to sort of the manufacturing mill where it was made, to sort of the manufacturing mill where it was made, and then how the shirt ended up in Sydney, got on Oceanic nd what the shirt is trying to redeem itself for. Then we have flash forwards with the shirt. Speaking of shirts, by the way, here the parka now goes on, and you see that it has the...

Carlton Cuse: See, he models it. He does a full runway turn.

Damon Lindelof: That's true. It has the Halliwax name and the Orchid logo.

Carlton Cuse: What is up with this Halliwax, Candle, what's up with that, Damon?

Damon Lindelof: l would say that for reasons unbeknownst to us, the person who is representing himself as Marvin Candle and Edgar Halliwax, and he has several other aliai or aliases.

Carlton Cuse: l think it's aliases.

Damon Lindelof: We have yet to learn his true name. But, we might be seeing some of him in the future of the show.

Carlton Cuse: l hope so. l like Dr. Candle.

Damon Lindelof: Again, we can't say enough nice things about Michael Emerson, but, you know, this is basically where he's explaining that he can never come back to the island. ls that true? We don't know. But he certainly thinks it is. And he's now telling Locke, that he is now leader of the Others. And he plays this with this sense of finality, and also despair and desperation, but almost a business-like approach of, "I've been fired, you're taking over my job. l'm sorry l've been hard on you." But, the fact Ben is now going to go ahead and execute what he was told to, there is a certain quiet nobility in that. l think our intention in the writing was to get the audience to like Ben again, right before he goes down into the Donkey Wheel chamber.

Carlton Cuse: Even though he's blown up a boatload of people.

Damon Lindelof: The scene that comes after that is obviously an important scene where, where Alpert welcomes Locke into his role of leadership. But now is the right time to start talking about the Frozen Donkey Wheel.

Carlton Cuse: No, l actually have one more comment about this. Originally, our plan was to carry this scene a little bit further forward. So Locke actually spots the Others, and he's now the leader. The scene went to a point where he actually picked out his woman.

Damon Lindelof: Oh, that's right, yes. He says, "You. You will be my woman. l will call you Thora. And we will take off our shirts and swing from vines."

Carlton Cuse: l think the one on the left.

Damon Lindelof: Someone told us that's a stupid idea.

Carlton Cuse: That wasn't what we were doing with the scene.

Damon Lindelof: l like that woman holding the melons next to, Alpert there. "You. You with the melons."

Carlton Cuse: She is the future...

Damon Lindelof: "No, l mean the melons you're holding. You will be my woman, Thora."

Carlton Cuse: We just have to take one moment here to talk about, Richard Alpert, who, obviously has got a very interesting role as being the sort of... He's not exactly the leader of the Others, but he's definitely the keeper of...

Damon Lindelof: He's the Dick Cheney of the Others.

Carlton Cuse: He's got a lot to say about who rules the island. In the snapshot in time, he's got a lot to say about Locke's leadership. In the meantime, Ben, now deposed, is going to actually kind of fulfill his final mission, which is to attempt to move the island here. We were talking before, basically, about this sequence. We actually have names for the sort of ends of each of these episodes. And we do try, when we're writing and producing the show, to keep the stuff secret. There are a lot of people who try to post Lost spoilers, and so we don't publish a lot of the actual execution of these final sequences of the pilots. The finales are really something that we keep just to ourselves. And, oh, by the way, here's just the other fulfillment of this gag. He steps through. That little piece of metal rips the hole in his arm, which we saw in Tunisia.

Damon Lindelof: To expand what you're saying, first year was The Bagel, second was The Challah, the third year we abandoned bread products and went to The Rattlesnake.

Carlton Cuse: The Rattlesnake in the Mailbox.

Damon Lindelof: This year it's confusing, We codenamed the last scene, which is not this scene, but the scene, where basically we reveal the occupant of the coffin, as the Frozen Donkey Wheel. The reason that we did that, if someone actually chanced upon this scene, and saw this shot, or understood that Ben was pushing a Frozen Donkey Wheel, they would think that is what we were referring to, and stop searching.

Carlton Cuse: But also it was like, OK, why was it called the Frozen Donkey Wheel? lt seemed like such a crazy reference. But in fact, unlike challah or bagel or... rattlesnake in the mailbox, it actually appears in the show. There is a frozen donkey wheel. It was very confusing, perplexing.

Damon Lindelof: l am still confused.

Carlton Cuse: This is the Frozen Donkey Wheel, although we refer to the final scene as the Frozen Donkey Wheel, even though this is the Frozen Donkey Wheel.

Damon Lindelof: It is confusing, even to us. That's the key, is to confuse yourself, so under interrogation...

Carlton Cuse: We wouldn't have been able to, if someone had tried to get us to tell what was going at the end of the show, we couldn't have explained it.

Damon Lindelof: Absolutely.

Carlton Cuse: There's the mystery of what's behind the wall? Like back in the Swan. There's some giant gears and stuff that this wheel is turning. Perhaps opening some sort of an aperture.

Damon Lindelof: If you look closely, there's some hieroglyphics right behind Ben. You'll see them again, sort of on that column. For those of you looking for some fun way to spend your Sunday afternoon.

Carlton Cuse: Learn Egyptology.

Damon Lindelof: Yes, exactly.

Carlton Cuse: And l love Giacchino's theme here over Ben. This is Ben's sort of tragic theme. 'Cause we, we wanted to play this as emotional for him. Obviously, the island is going to move and disappear and we're gonna basically hand off to the Oceanic Six at the end of this. But we really wanted to get the sense of Ben's despair here.

Damon Lindelof: A quick shout-out to Bryan Burk, who is a sound master, and spent about three days getting the sounds just right in this sequence. But, you know, we have everybody sort of getting washed out by this effect. And one of my favorite special effects that Mitch did, is this one coming up right here, following the light going down, and you just see this big bloop. Like, what the hell happened to the island?

Carlton Cuse: Just got swallowed, as it were. And then that wave, basically, carries over here.

Damon Lindelof: You see the wave rolling under them.

Carlton Cuse: That's cool. That's a great shot.

Damon Lindelof: And where is the island?

Carlton Cuse: l won't say the word wormhole.

Damon Lindelof: Now that people have bought the DVD, will you reveal where is the island?

Cuse] Uh... l will not say the word "wormhole."

Damon Lindelof: You won't? ls it two words or one word?

Carlton Cuse: Two words. Wormhole.

Damon Lindelof: l think it's one word.

Carlton Cuse: No. l don't know. John?

[John Bernstein] One word.

Damon Lindelof: We'll go with one word.

Carlton Cuse: We're going with one word. The island definitely moved someplace. And, of course, that will be a fairly interesting question for season five. Where, and perhaps when, did the island go to?

Damon Lindelof: And there is your last fuel quantity gauge shot. This is another thing. When we first called down to Hawaii and said, we're gonna blow up the freighter, move the island. And then once the island is moved, we need the eight people in the helicopter to crash into the water. We want the helicopter to turn end over end, they're all gonna be underwater, and do a sort of daring Desmond resuscitation rescue. Not once did Jack Bender or Jean Higgins say, "Are you crazy?" They said, "We can do that." Lo and behold...

Carlton Cuse: This is great. The silence with just the rotors through the air, the helicopter is out of gas, it makes you feel sick to your stomach.

Damon Lindelof: What are the rotors doing?

Carlton Cuse: Just going... [mimics rotors]

Damon Lindelof: Wow. l love it when you do sound effects. This is great. This is not a special effect.

Carlton Cuse: That's a real helicopter.

Damon Lindelof: This is not a special effect.

Carlton Cuse: That's a real helicopter. And the actors did that five times.

Damon Lindelof: And now, in the original version of the script, we picked it up right here. But we put an act out there with the crash. We wanted the audience to say, "Wait. Desmond."

Carlton Cuse: Am l watching O at the Bellagio?

Damon Lindelof: Wait, Desmond and Lapidus are not members of the Oceanic Six, did they survive the crash? And that is obviously, sort of a story point that is, exacerbated here by seeing Desmond in the straits that he's in.

Carlton Cuse: There was a bit here where Jack did some, synchronized swimming, but, we had to cut that for time.

Damon Lindelof: Yes. And he has all sorts of colorful cloths under there. It's very beautiful. And all done to whale song. But we cut it out, 'cause it felt... ...the word that came back was that it was too lyrical. So we went with a straight-up action sequence instead.

Carlton Cuse: Also, the shark helped rescue Desmond in the script, but we couldn't afford the shark in the actual day we were shooting the sequence.

Damon Lindelof: Would be cool if a shark gave mouth-to-mouth to Desmond.

Carlton Cuse: It lifted Desmond, propelled him, dropped him in the raft.

Damon Lindelof: Then it looked up and said, "l am sick and tired of the bad reputation my kind gets amongst humanity. Go back into the world and tell them what l have done today." And then it winks at Jack, and swims off.

Carlton Cuse: Never again an 80 minute commentary. Never, never again. So we wanted everybody to think Desmond was dead here. That was the idea. Because Desmond is not one of the Oceanic Six, hopefully you're asking, "Oh, my God. ls that how they got rid of Desmond? ls that why he didn't survive? Did he die in the helicopter crash?"

Damon Lindelof: More importantly...

Carlton Cuse: Pray it's not so.

Damon Lindelof: ...Matthew said this year, "If l don't get to kiss lan Cusick, l will not be on the show anymore." So, we felt it would be weird for the audience if he did it. We wrote this scene instead he gives him the kiss of life.

Carlton Cuse: That's good, there are three kisses in this. l like in the short takes, you can see how engaged the baby is in this rescue. That's, fantastic. Aaron is very concerned about Desmond's fate here.

Damon Lindelof: And he's OK. And, you know, obviously, all this stuff inside the raft was shot on a sound-stage. Um... these are effects shots here, with the water behind them. And, this is just a great shot, they're in the middle of nowhere.

Carlton Cuse: That's a real raft in water.

Damon Lindelof: Something cool is about to happen when Kate answers the phone, there's a bit of backwards masking, something we haven't done since season two. If you listen carefully here, then you play it backwards, you will hear a message.

Carlton Cuse: She'll say, "The walrus is Paul."

Damon Lindelof: Yes, exactly.

Carlton Cuse: No, not really.

Damon Lindelof: Someone calling in the middle of the night ain't good.

Carlton Cuse: Candygram. Hello, who's there?

Damon Lindelof: Who is it?

Carlton Cuse: l don't know.

Damon Lindelof: Clicks and buzzes.

Carlton Cuse: Click-like, yes. Um... And this is cool and creepy. One of the things that we really discovered that we loved was how awesome Emilie de Ravin was playing creepy. One of my favorite moments this season is when we see her with Christian Shephard, she has this creepy malevolent smile. And here, too. l mean, like, the way she delivers this message, "Do not bring Aaron back to the island," couldn't be better.

Damon Lindelof: lf you look behind Kate on the poster on the back of the door, that's a big white rabbit. A little Alice in Wonderland shout-out, and a recurrent theme in the show. And, Evie is just great here, because, obviously, she's just had this terrifying dream, but she goes in. Evolving Kate's character this season towards, you know, motherhood, is something that she really took to. l really love her performance, as she kind of just looks down at her sleeping son, although he is not her biological son. And she has this intense love for him that is undercut by this even more intense guilt. And that's gonna be a big theme in next season's show, because when Ben says, 'All of you have to go back," one has to wonder if that is inclusive of Aaron.

Carlton Cuse: Mmm. Do you think that number one on Aaron's blanket has significance?

Damon Lindelof: He's number one in Kate's heart, l think, is one way of looking at it.

Carlton Cuse: Maybe. Maybe not.

Damon Lindelof: lt's not one of our numbers. So, that's refreshing.

Carlton Cuse: That is true. Well, you can only pound those numbers to death so many times.

Damon Lindelof: l love that transition.

Carlton Cuse: Yeah. Baby to baby. So, anyway, we're kind of coming in now to the end. And now, of course, this is...

Damon Lindelof: lf only we were. We're still a good minutes from the end, Carlton.

Carlton Cuse: We're closing in. lt's like you're running a marathon, and you see the Coliseum in the distance. You know, you've had a lot of lactic acid buildup, l can tell during the course of this commentary.

Damon Lindelof: Hurley is the only one who sustained scrapes or bruises, right across his face.

Carlton Cuse: That's cool, l know. lt looks like he got hit with like a piece of the skids of the helicopter or something. That's a good piece of makeup work there. lt's very quality. But, anyway, obviously, you know, Jack is now having to really contemplate what he saw, which was, "Oh, the island really did disappear. What does that mean? Was Locke right?"

Damon Lindelof: This is a joke that we kept telling each other in the editing room, here's this moment of incredible victory, which is, there's this boat, and they're about to get rescued. Having gone from being in the middle of nowhere with no chance of rescue. Jack couldn't be more depressed about it. And, you know, at the end of this act, we will shout out the inside joke for you, but we'll keep it 'til then. Here's where the Giacchino theme reminds us of what Locke said to Jack, and Jack actually kind of...

Carlton Cuse: He's processing it.

Damon Lindelof: Begins to realize Locke was right. We better watch what we say.

Carlton Cuse: Why celebrate the glorious moment of being rescued, when we can kind of be depressed about it instead?

Damon Lindelof: Yeah. But one thing about Jack that, in terms of looking forward, to seasons five and six, is he will always be Jack, and he will always be deep and dark and, you know, conflicted. But, again, there's...

Carlton Cuse: He will decide to become a standup comedian. That will affect his character a lot.

Damon Lindelof: He'll do a set at lmprov.

Carlton Cuse: "Seriously! Are you paying attention to my joke?"

Damon Lindelof: No more 80 minute commentaries ever again. Now, actually, this is...

Carlton Cuse:l was on an island, OK? All right? l was on an island.

Damon Lindelof: This is an interesting scene because, you know, we wrote about nine different versions, all considerably longer than this. We're like...

Carlton Cuse: By "considerably longer," he means, like, pages.

Damon Lindelof: Considerably worse.

Carlton Cuse:ln which Jack outlines every detail of the lie, including their fake back-stories.

Damon Lindelof: Yeah, he actually, you know, in an earlier version of the draft, he tells Kate in this scene, "You have to say the baby is yours." But it felt like, in that moment, he's going too far. They haven't been rescued yet. All he needs to do is introduce the idea that they have to lie, and why. And nobody really needs to digest it yet. That's why we do the week-long jump between these two acts.

Carlton Cuse: And if they actually did do the full scene, they would all have died of starvation on the raft before it was finished.

Damon Lindelof: And that would have been the slowest boat in history. ln a finale fraught with sort of peril and depression and death, here is sort of the one moment of great emotional victory...

Carlton Cuse: Happiness. Good God.

Damon Lindelof: which l think nobody guessed at. Nobody thought we would get Desmond and Penny together this soon.

Carlton Cuse: This is one of the Portuguese guys that we saw in the snow hut at the end of season two.

{Lindelof] That is one long callback.

Carlton Cuse: That is a real long callback. We cast the guy who didn't look like Fox, so there would be no confusion. Some people thought one of the Portuguese dudes in the hut was Matthew Fox, and it wasn't. So we said let's get the Portuguese dude. We think it's a Portuguese ship, then he's saying, "Ms. Widmore." And l really applaud Jack Bender's amazing direction here, because he managed to just find that perfect point of modulation, which led you to be confused and not sure about what sort of ship this was, and then the slow reveal that, in fact, Penny is actually on this boat, and this build. And basically creating this geographic separation, milking the moment of the two of them finally coming together. This was a huge payoff. And l think for us, we thought, the audience isn't expecting you're gonna get Penny and Desmond together at the end of season four. lt felt like a series culminating moment. We wanted... We try to make the finales feel conclusive. That sounds crazy, so many unanswered questions, but there are so many things we still owe the audience, in terms of answers. This was the conclusive moment, the payoff. The part of the story which makes you feel like, "l've watched season four, and it's led to something fulfilling." And it was their reunion.

Damon Lindelof: The Constant, which is an episode that really sort of set up a lot of the things that are going to happen on the show, but, was so emotionally powerful, especially the performances, between Sonya Walger and, and lan Cusick here. You know, essentially, getting these two back together really felt like it was absolutely essential in the finale. And, you know, to do it any sort of later than this would not be a good payoff for The Constant, in which they have this phone call. The idea that that phone call actually triggered a plot reveal was really important to us. So now...

Carlton Cuse: lt doesn't mean you've seen the last of Penny and Desmond.

Damon Lindelof: Oh no. Not by a long shot.

Carlton Cuse: Here's the big moment.

Damon Lindelof: Here's all the joyful sort of like, "Oh, my God, this is my friend, Penny, What a small world that she's the one who came." Sun is still a little shaken by the fact that Jin's dead.

Carlton Cuse: Hurley's had too much Dharma rum.

Damon Lindelof: Here's Jack. And Jack.

Carlton Cuse: Oh my god.

Damon Lindelof: Buzz... kill.

Carlton Cuse: Buzzkill.

Damon Lindelof: He's just a buzzkill. And here we have one week later. We very rarely do subtitles on the show to explain where you are in time. ln this case, it was incredibly important to tell the audience, there was a week of conversations and planning that went on, and convincing, by the way.

Carlton Cuse: A week of boat travel. Although it is a bit confusing, the island...

Damon Lindelof: Break it down for us.

Carlton Cuse: Here's how you break it down. 815 in reality, crashed, somewhere, like a thousand miles from Fiji. And yet, the wreckage of 815 the fake one that was planted on the bottom of the ocean, was in an entirely different part...

Damon Lindelof: ln the Sunda Trench...

Carlton Cuse: ...over by lndonesia. And that's a long way away. So, they've been driving, from where the island was located, they've been driving west about 3000 miles during the course of this week.

Damon Lindelof: 'cause they know that if they turn up on an island that is viably, too far away from where the actual wreckage was discovered, that no one will believe their story.

Carlton Cuse: Exactly. So they've had to motor over near the fake wreckage of 815 They've actually come ashore on a deserted island.

Damon Lindelof: Right. They said that the island that they were on was Membata, and the island they come to is Sunda.

Carlton Cuse: Right.

Damon Lindelof: By the way, one of my favorite lines here, coming up. A long callback, back to when they met in the stadium. Jack and Desmond get so few scenes together, but, you know, this is just sort of the great show moment.

Carlton Cuse: So, now they basically are coming ashore in Sunda, and now kind of commencing their return to the real world.

Damon Lindelof: This is where all of the pieces come into play. Now, remember, this week that they spent on the freighter, is where they cooked up the lie. What's cool about the Oceanic Six's lie is, they basically piggybacked on whoever put the wreckage of the plane there. Whether it was Ben or Widmore is yet to be determined. They're saying, "Someone made it look like we're dead, and what we're going to do is, we're going to co-opt their lie, be a part of it and say we were actually on that plane and got out of it before it sunk to the ocean floor." That protects them from whoever is the perpetrator of that lie, because to expose their lie would be to expose the lie that the plane is there in the first place. Which is something very, very convoluted and complicated, but when you think about it, is kickass. And Carlton has a hat just like that.

Carlton Cuse: And it can only be explained in an 80 minute commentary.

Damon Lindelof: ls it true, Carlton, that you loaned that guy your hat?

Carlton Cuse: l rented these hats to the production for $,000 a day, actually.

Damon Lindelof: That's awesome. What a bargain.

Carlton Cuse: That's gonna pay my mortgage payments for a while.

Damon Lindelof: One of my favorite...

Carlton Cuse: Everything's favorite for you in this! What don't you like in this finale?

Damon Lindelof: l like the sound transition coming up. This is Michael Giacchino's Oceanic Six theme. Obviously they're coming ashore here. You're basically gonna transition out of this beautiful poignant piano and strings moment, and, and get blasted by the Pixies.

Carlton Cuse: That's a good song.

Damon Lindelof: Which is wicked.

Carlton Cuse: So, anyway, now we're almost at the end, and we now know what the circumstances were to setup the lie, all we owe now is, who's in the bloody coffin.

Damon Lindelof: l just noticed, Jack parked at a meter, and he does not feed the meter.

Carlton Cuse: lt's after eight, Damon.

Damon Lindelof: He's that far gone. He's like, l'm not even gonna read the parking restrictions.

Carlton Cuse: He's past the parking restrictions.

Damon Lindelof: "Hoffs Drawlar," obviously, "flash forward," if you reorganize the letters. And, l don't know if you reorganize the letters in the phrase "funeral parlor," it says, it says "laparoscopic." And this scene is a very exciting scene for us, because...

Carlton Cuse: We get to see Jack use a brick. And he never gets to use a brick. And he is awesome with a brick. Look at that. Look at that technique. Now watch this. Kick that door.

Damon Lindelof: Most people would take at least five bangs on that doorknob.

Carlton Cuse: Know what else is good about this scene, Damon? His beard is a lot better in this scene.

Damon Lindelof: lt has improved vastly.

Carlton Cuse: They spent an entire year working on that beard.

Damon Lindelof: Here's the coffin, let's just bring it in, get a little serious, we're almost home, Carlton.

Carlton Cuse: We were trying to make sure that no one found out who was in the coffin, so we actually, this is it. We shot three actors in this coffin. And...

Damon Lindelof: The only people who knew who was actually gonna be in the coffin, "actually," actually, were Terry, who is, you know, it was gonna be Locke, and obviously Matthew, who had to play the fact he's looking down at Locke, and of course, Michael Emerson. and Jack Bender, the director. But everyone else who was...

Carlton Cuse:And us.

Damon Lindelof: ...on the set that day didn't know, who we were actually gonna end up putting in the show. We were hoping to create confusion as to who was actually in the coffin. Anyway, this is a great reveal of Ben, because he was the leading candidate for most, for the occupant of the coffin, we thought it would be cool to reveal him before we revealed.

Carlton Cuse: A lot of people thought it was Desmond.

Damon Lindelof: Really?

Carlton Cuse:That's what l heard.

Damon Lindelof: Who do you think it is?

Carlton Cuse: l thought it was Vincent, the dog.

Damon Lindelof: That would've been cool.

Carlton Cuse: Not a dog-shaped coffin, though.

Damon Lindelof: We're getting...

Carlton Cuse: Some thought Michael.

Damon Lindelof: You should watch this scene several times, without us babbling, because there's incredibly important information encased here that will come to light in season five, in terms of, you know, Jeremy Bentham, AKA Locke, coming to see Kate, coming to see Jack. We know that he also came to see Walt. He told Jack to come back to the island, this was his fault. All these things are very important.

Carlton Cuse: The message he delivers to Ben, what Jack tells us about his conversation with Locke, and what Ben says to Jack about what their mission must be in the future, obviously these are the things of which season five will be made.

Damon Lindelof: Very exciting. l love future Ben, too. He's so... badass.

Carlton Cuse: He's cool. And now, this is sort of my favorite Jack Bender shot, which is this nice crane up over the coffin to reveal the actual occupant here. lt's really great. l'm a little bit ahead of myself, l know. l'm so anxious for this to be over that...

Damon Lindelof: You and the rest of us. Jeez Louise. Seriously, if you have actually gone through this commentary in one sitting, Carlton will come to your house and do a live commentary for all of the previous finales. Uh... l can't speak for myself.

Carlton Cuse: You need a codeword, like, you know, "red robin," which proves you watched all the way through to the end. lf you know the code phrase "red robin," you've endured 372 minutes of commentary to get to this moment.

Damon Lindelof: lf you walk up to Carlton and hand him a daisy, say, "red robin," wink, and kiss him sweetly on the neck...

Carlton Cuse: No kiss...

Damon Lindelof: He will come to your house...and do a live commentary for you.

Carlton Cuse: Or your laundry.

Damon Lindelof: Or your laundry. Whichever you prefer. He will actually... lf you bring two daisies, he will do a commentary as he does your laundry. He will explain what fabric softener he's using, and why, et cetera.

Carlton Cuse: l think we've gotten to the... Are we at the shot yet?

Damon Lindelof: We're almost at your shot. Here we go.

Carlton Cuse: That had a lot of explaining to do.

Damon Lindelof: This is great despair Matthew plays here. They're both just looking at him, and...

Carlton Cuse: Of course Giacchino's score is phenomenal. Look at how good Locke looks dead. Oh, my God. Terry just... he looks shrunken, you know, the way dead people really do? l'm afraid we're out of time now.

Damon Lindelof: Oh, my God. l could just keep going for, l don't know, another...

Carlton Cuse: Thanks so much.

Damon Lindelof: ...four hours.

Carlton Cuse: ...You one person who's listening. I hope you enjoy the show next year.

Damon Lindelof: We will see you, at your house as Carlton does your laundry.

Carlton Cuse: Godspeed.

Damon Lindelof: Bye.

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